BY WENDY BOWMAN BUTLER
April 2, 2022


I climb the steep wooden staircase to a loft on the top floor of artist Jon Flaming’s house, perched in the tree tops and carved from timber. Blocks of color and muted angular shapes from the paintings stack against a backdrop of dusty artifacts from the past. History is splattered all over the room. Scraps of paper, post cards, license plates nailed to the floor, Navajo blankets, faded American flags, cow skulls, rusted chairs, hub caps, tin cans, glass bottles—many branded with Jon’s signature cowboy, swooped in a few black strokes. The windows cut out squares of blue February light—a foil to the amber warmth inside his studio. Outside in his back yard, he has constructed an entire set from an old Wild West cowtown, complete with a life-sized saloon topped with a sign that reads “Triple H Store”. He calls his spot the Quarter Acre Ranch.

Jon smiles and welcomes me in with hospitality. He is inquisitive and genuinely interested in my story and my work. We spend nearly an hour chatting and laughing as I set up. There is a kindness to him mimicked by the space itself. His paintings are grand and valiant. The subjects in his Modern Cowboy series may be reduced down to graphic forms, but they are intricate and transportive. I feel the heat of the desert sun and the warmth from the campfire flames. I hear the horse hoofs clop and the cheers from a rodeo crowd. Much like the cowboys in his work, Jon tells his story in a humble fashion, trotting forward while nodding to the days of old.

WENDY BOWMAN BUTLER: When and why did you start making your work?

JON FLAMING: I started really early. At the age of 5, I was sitting in my little Sunday school class up in Wichita, Kansas, and this kid sitting next to me, the same age, he was five, was drawing a jet airplane. I looked at that jet airplane and I thought, man that is so cool. I want to be able to draw a jet airplane the way he drew one. You have to keep in mind, it was the height of the Vietnam War so tanks, and jet airplanes, and fighter planes, and all that kind of stuff was a big deal, especially for a little boy, not knowing the context of the war. From that point on, there was something that clicked in me that needed to create, to draw, to build whatever. That was really the genesis of my creativity. It has evolved a lot over the years, but that was the beginning of it.

WBB: I notice when I’m looking at your paintings that they shift from wide to detail, from land to person, and as they make those shifts, the technique changes with them. Your landscapes are often painterly and detailed, and many of your portraits are reduced simply to shapes of people and tighter subject matter. How and why do you choose specific techniques for different scenes?

JF: I don’t know if there’s a rhyme or a reason. It just all depends on what hits me on any given day. Now, there’s certainly periods, like with Picasso, there are delineated periods of his style—Blue Period, Rose Period, and others. You can see the evolution of his art—where it goes from very realistic in his early work to almost abstract in the early 70’s by the time he’s an old man. Everywhere in that progression, in that evolution, he is jumping around. He is going back to doing something he did 20 years ago. He’s mixing it up. For me, it’s kind of the same thing. I’ll do a whole series of very bold, geometric paintings—for instance, the Modern Cowboy series, then, to cleanse this visual palette, I’ll go back to more of a painterly, impressionistic style in a series of landscapes. The more graphic work that I’m doing currently, in a lot of ways, was informed by my design work. So, Saul Bass and Paul Rand, and some of those giants in the design industry were some that I really gravitated towards. My design work certainly had that influence. My painting, especially currently, also has a lot of that big, bold, geometric, simple [aesthetic]. Somebody once said, “Creativity is subtraction.” And I love that. How can I boil this piece down to the simplest elements and convey a graphic message with these elements, but in the simplest way? To answer your question—I jump around. If I get bored with painting this way, I’ll paint another way. If I get bored with painting in general, I’ll go down to my shop and I’ll build something. I’ll create something with my hands. I’ll create a sculpture piece out of stone or wood. If I get bored with that, I’ll do these charcoal sketches with brush, you know more of a water color thing. I’m all over the place, but that’s what keeps it really interesting. 

WBB: Absolutely. I can even see when you’re jumping from different styles or even mediums. When we’re talking about your paintings being painterly, there is still color blocking in them, there are still these graphic, geometric elements in them. There is a tether that brings it all together that is really cool. Even though you might be saying these paintings are a bit more traditional, it is still very much modern and graphic. I saw a Hockney retrospective at The Met and I didn’t even recognize the paintings from the end of his life. 

JF: I know! Absolutely. [Hockney] really embraced modern technology. I am totally convinced that Picasso, Van Gogh, Matisse, Cézanne—had the computer been available during their time, that they would have embraced it as well and used it in some form or another. I use it to create my color compositions now. So instead of painting my compositions, which I used to do, I do it all on my computer. That way instead of doing two studies, I can do ten or twenty studies and really fine tune it and really get it where I want it to be. 

WBB: How does your experience in the corporate marketing world inform your experience in the fine art world? I don’t necessarily only mean the techniques, and the day to day process, but also conceptually, and life experience, and how the mediums of the graphic design and painting interact with one another.

JF: I had a design and branding studio for 25 years. Five years ago, I just said I am done with this and I’m moving to full time painting. There is no doubt that the time spent in that world has informed what I’m doing now. The beauty of what I am doing now is—I’m the client. So even now I have people coming to me, “Hey, can I commission you to do a piece?” And very gently and compassionately I say, “I’m not doing commission work.” And they’re talking about a painting. I still will get phone calls. I got one yesterday from the Fort Worth Zoo and they said, “We would like to use some of your images to promote a fundraiser for the zoo.” We had a great conversation and I just said, “Hey, listen, I am not trying to be offensive at all and I love what you guys are doing, but I’m really not doing any commercial work anymore and I am extremely limiting myself on where I’m licensing the work.” They were cool and they understood. The coolest part about what I’m doing now is that I get to wake up every morning and go, That’s what I want to paint today. Or, That’s what I want to sketch. I like being the client. That’s an earned freedom. What I mean by that is, the majority of my years have been spent, thankfully, I am so grateful to have worked with Neiman Marcus and American Airlines, and great clients who have been really good to me and to my family, and put food on the table and all that kind of stuff. I am so grateful for that. When I say “earned freedom”, it’s many, many years of having clients and working for clients, and then getting to a point financially where I have the resources to say no. I have the financial resources to very gently and kindly say, “I need to pass on that.” What I mean by that is that now I’m the client. I do some projects from time to time with corporate America. Tecovas was one and there are others. It really has to answer three or four criteria. One is I have to really enjoy the people I’m working with. [Second], it has to be a fun project. Third, the money has got to be really good. [Fourth], it has to fit the brand—the brands have to work together. If it answers those four criteria, then the likelihood of me jumping in and being a part of something like that, that’s more corporate, [is higher]. I got a call from Balcones Whisky down in Waco and they’re doing some really cool Texas stuff with their bourbon and have asked me to create some work with them, so I think we’ll end up doing something together as well. I always put those criteria up front. I’m very up front with these guys. And a lot of them go, “Yeah cool man. We totally get it if it works. We totally get it if it doesn’t.” A lot of them have been great. I try to tie in with Texas brands, because my stuff is very Texas. If I can find a collaboration or a partnership like that, then typically it’s a good thing. 

WBB: Yeah and you say you have the financial resources to say no to things that you don’t want to do, but I would say you also have the resource of knowledge, experience, and intel.

JF: You’re right.

WBB: The fact that you even say, “Oh I’m picky about who I license to.” There are a lot of artists, especially in my generation, who don’t know how to navigate the business side sometimes. We talk about that a lot down at Mercury Project like, “How are you licensing your work? How do you protect this work if someone wants to publish it?” I have to do that as a photographer a lot. I can’t just let everyone go and use my photos all the time. It’s hard for people to understand that. I really think it’s interesting that your experience in the corporate world gave you that power as well.

JF: You’re right and thank you for redirecting me. Absolutely, so dealing with contracts, dealing with usage rights, dealing with time limitations for this usage, and all that has really equipped me to run a successful business as an artist. I often help coach our kids who are shooters. I’ll help them put together a contract and I always say, “Never sell copyright. Never let somebody have the copyright to this. Unless it’s something you know you’ll never use that image again and unless it’s at least a 300% upcharge and probably more like a 500% upcharge on that piece. Just know if you do sell copyright to that, they can use it however they want to. Keep in mind that’s your brand. So if you’re associated with that, and that’s associated with you, and somebody else is doing something with it that you don’t like, and you sold copyright, you’re out of luck.”

WBB: That happens to a lot of musicians especially.

JF: Totally. And that’s why with our musician kid—they’re young and they’re not as well resourced and they’re struggling, which is good—I did too. I said, “Fight it man. You can do this. You got it.” But they’re getting offers from people like, “Hey we’ll buy the copyright from you on those three pieces of music and we want to use them for this.” And I just say, “Dude, license it.” They’re thinking, I’ve got to put food on the table. We’ve got two toddlers. I say, “I understand the struggle for sure. I get it. But you’re going to have to make your own decisions. As an older, wiser person who’s been down the road further, I’ve shot myself in the foot enough times to know, don’t do that.” 

A lot of my artist friends who didn’t have that background, don’t understand this duality and this partnership of the two sides of the brain—the right brain and left brain coming together to create a successful business. I think you get that really well. I understand as a left brain creative, I’ve got to, on a daily basis, engage the right brain. It’s got to be working in tandem with the left brain otherwise this is not going to work. Whether it’s billing or contracts or dealing with new collectors, I’ve got to be a people person, I’ve got to be engaging, I’ve got to know how to sell my work. 

WBB: You have to play a lot of roles.

JF: Wearing tons of hats, sure, lots of different roles, and it’s hard, but that’s also what makes it fun and interesting. A number of my artist friends don’t enjoy the piece of dealing with people. They don’t really know how to sell their work, they don’t know how to write a contract, they’re not engaging. I’ve got one who has agoraphobia—they don’t like being around people at all. No shame and that’s just the way they’re wired, but they’re very anxious to be around lots of people. Even to do an interview—they just couldn’t do it. I totally get that. Actually, I’m an introvert. I’m a total introvert. So I’m my strongest and my best when I’m alone. Over the years, and probably being married to an extrovert in my wife, I’ve learned how to be a part of a huge crowd, how to speak in front of crowds, and speak one on one, all those things. I knew, I could either run from this, or embrace it and learn how to deal with it. It’s not necessarily a comfort zone, but as a business person, I need to have those skills.

WBB: I think so many artists are introverted and work alone, especially painters. That’s where the middlemen come in right? The gallerists, the salesmen, this is why there’s always a middleman in every industry. As our generation is more and more online, and more and more able to sell our work, I think it would be helpful for us to learn those kind of skills that you have and have gained through your experience. Would you ever consider writing some kind of book or something that could help younger artists with the business side of art? Or an essay or an instructional manual or something like that? Not a novel, but a few basic things on how to license your work.

JF: I would do it more in the form of Austin Kleon, the writer. He just does these little square, simple books. It’s his writing, but it’s also his drawings. It’s just kind of stream of consciousness stuff. Very well written. It would be more along those lines. But yeah, absolutely, that would be a fun thing to do for sure. 

WBB: What role does nostalgia play in your work?

JF: That’s a great question. In my early work, it played a huge role, because I would paint small town gas stations and old buildings and things like that. It played a bigger role then and I think it still plays a role. I don’t shy away from it. One school of thought is that nostalgia should not have any place in your work and that it should be today and moving forward. I don’t subscribe to that. If there’s a piece of my history or a piece of my family’s history going back several generations, and I want to include some reference to that, or pay homage to that, I’m going to do it. Here’s the thing, as an artist, I can be or do whatever I want to do. I have my own set of standards and things that I won’t do, but those are internal. I would never impose those or superimpose those on another artist. I don’t know the language that you’re speaking, or where you’ve been, or what your history is, or where you’re going. So you need to speak for yourself, like I’m going to speak for myself through my art. The role of nostalgia plays a part certainly with my Modern Cowboy series—I’m making reference in subtle ways to the old Westerns. The cowboy is timeless. The cowboy today, if you go to the 6666 Ranch or the King Ranch, that cowboy looks pretty much like the cowboys looked in 1850 or 1822. I embrace nostalgia, but I’m also aware of it. I try not to be cheesy, corny nostalgia—just to put something in there like, I’m going to put a Coca Cola sign in there because people will like that. I don’t do that. I’ve used a Coca Cola sign, but it’s not because I know this will speak to people. If it's meaningful and there’s reference there and it’s logical to put it in there, I will, but I try not to use it as a crutch. If it’s natural, and it feels right, then I’ll use it, but I think there are lots of artists that use nostalgia as a crutch. I do use nostalgia, but I try to use it sparingly.

WBB: Using anything in your work just because you think people will like it, is never going to make your best pieces anyway. 

JF: Exactly.

WBB: It has to be something that is meaningful to you. I even realized that with chasing commercial photography work. The moment I stopped doing it, and focused in on this project for instance, then the money followed. If you’re making the work for yourself, that’s when it’s the best.

JF: Yeah you’re absolutely right. If you’re passionate about something, and you’re a hard worker, focused, then yeah, it just happens. That’s something we emphasized with our kids, just, “Hey man, you could be the most talented person in the world, you could be the most well resourced, the most knowledgeable person in the world, if you’re not working at what you’re passionate about, and persevering, it doesn’t matter.” Some of the smartest, most educated, resourceful, talented people in the world are not making it, because it’s the perseverance, it’s that work ethic, that hard part. That’s why I am so thankful for our kids, they’re not trust fund kids, they don’t come from a ton of money. I am so thankful for that. There’s nothing wrong with money, don’t get me wrong. Money is a great tool. Money in lots of ways can make life fun and more interesting. 

WBB: It gives you freedom.

JF: Freedom for sure to go places you might not be able to go etc. But I came from a family who had nothing. So that struggle piece is so important for me. I came from parents who really taught a strong work ethic—to really work at something and don’t give up. Keep moving forward. 

WBB: Absolutely—to learn how to be scrappy.

JF: Yeah.

WBB: You don’t want people to suffer, but then you realize that some of the greatest people are those who come from nothing. 

JF: I know.

WBB: I think that’s great that your kids are also getting exposed to creativity from your family too. When you have creativity in your life, you can think about anything creatively—even if it’s not necessarily a traditionally creative field.

JF: That’s part of why our educational system is so flawed. They segregate math, science and those things over here and art and dance—those are over here. The most creative people on the planet—Elon Musk, Thomas Edison—their strength was really numbers and formulas, but they are creatives. They are creative with math and science. What’s another way we can figure out how to fire a rocket into space and actually bring it back? That’s Elon Musk using his creativity. Often times the educational system says, these things are left brain and these are right brain. In everything you need both.

WBB: Why do you think that people all over the country and all around the world idolize the American West?

JF: That’s a great question and they have for years—for hundreds of years. There’s something romantic, dangerous, good, evil—this mixed bag of opposites that I think attract drama. It’s that drama, danger, romance mixture that people just gravitate towards. There is this ruggedness and survivalist mentality of living in the desert and living in the Wild West. Hollywood has obviously glamorized, but also falsified what that was. They’ve exaggerated. I think especially England in the mid-1800’s, because of books that were being written at the time about the West that they were reading, people were getting this unrealistic picture of what the West really was. It wasn’t quite that crazy or quite that deadly. Now there was crazy stuff going on, but I think they were getting this overhyped vision of what the West was. But yeah, for whatever reason, the world is fascinated by the American West, and the cowboy, and the cowgirl, and horses and ranches and cattle. Why? Probably the same reason I’m fascinated with it. My grandfather had a ranch in Kansas, and from the time I could be aware of things, I was aware of cattle, and branding, and running a ranch, and ranchmen and women that worked on the ranch, and small town workers, and blue collar workers. I was aware of it and now I have a love for that. Even in the middle of suburbia—I call this place and the name of our company the Quarter Acre Ranch. I’m on a quarter acre, but I love the whole ranch mentality. I don’t know exactly what the answer would be, but there is something enigmatic about it that I can’t put my finger on. It’s a lot of things rolled into one. There’s just something about the ruggedness, survivalist mentality of the cowboy and the cowgirl that’s just attractive.

WBB: It’s free too. When you talk about this drama and romanticism, it almost encapsulates every epic tale since the beginning of human kind. It seems like we’ve always been obsessed with those epic tales, like The Odyssey or The Iliad. It’s almost like the Western version of those stories. It’s also revering the survival and how tough it is for a cowboy, being a real man and being free and wild.

JF: I think a lot of people, including myself, live vicariously through these rugged characters and going, That lifestyle would absolutely kill me. Doing what a real cowboy or real cowgirl does—it’s fun to watch on TV or watch in a movie, but if a person had to actually do that, it would probably kill most people, because it’s such a difficult lifestyle. They could handle it maybe on a dude ranch for a week, but beyond that it would be like, No, no, no. Give me my cush job and cush vacations. A real cowboy or a real cowgirl, that lifestyle is one that 99% of people can live vicariously through those characters or through those people, but to actually really do it, they couldn’t.

WBB: Right, it’s like being a gladiator or an astronaut, or a Samurai, anything that requires discipline. I honestly think that ties back to why people are successful at their jobs. It’s a discipline and a hard work ethic.

JF: And it’s dangerous. Whether it’s corporate America or a cowboy, it’s dangerous on different levels. A cowboy has the dangers of the elements and the animals. There is an element of danger in wanting to be the best at what you do and to be successful at what you do. Most people want comfort. Comfort kills. People who live in their comfort zones will die. Maybe not die physically, but creatively and emotionally. The cowboy is one of those who doesn’t live in a comfort zone.

WBB: The cowboy is also one of the few epic heroes we’re talking about that exists harmoniously with the natural world and has the horse. There is something so magical about how that person’s best friend is a horse and they know how to ride the horse. They know how to work with the horse. The horse is one of the strongest animals we know, aside from an elephant or something. It’s pretty cool that there is this whole natural aspect of it too.

JF: Agreed, yeah. 

WBB: When I view your work I feel as if I can hear the sounds, feel the energy, and almost smell and taste what’s going on. Explain how you use shape and color to transcend the viewer past just the visual scenes and appeal to all five senses?

JF: Hmm, that’s interesting. I don’t know if anyone has ever shared that. As I mentioned earlier, simplicity is really important to me. Boiling something down to its basic elements. But then, I also love geometry and shapes—basic shapes. I try to incorporate lots of shapes in my work, especially in Modern Cowboy. Within those shapes, I love color. Within color, I love earth tones—almost as if you were to take an oil painting and leave it on a dusty road in West Texas for a couple of weeks and let people drive by it. Paint it in primary colors, let people drive by it on a gravel road, then see what it looks like. It’s more muted, dusty colors. This painting right here I just laid in what’s called local color. In local color, if that’s blue, then you’re just putting in a basic blue—red, basic red. Then it will be fine tuned and everything will be laid back. The blue will end up being a dusty blue and the reds will be more muted. So all the tones will be softened and muted back. Color is super important to me. As far as transporting someone to where their senses are engaged, I love that and I love that you say that. I think that’s awesome and I love that people have different reactions to the work. It’s not intentional. I’m not trying to do that, but I love hearing that. I had a guy in the studio yesterday who said, “Man your color schemes. I just love the colors—it just does something to me. Tell me about that.” So I shared with him the same thing I just shared with you about the color. It is intentional, but it is something that has evolved over a long time. 

WBB: It might be second nature too.

JF: A lot of it is second nature, yeah.

WBB: Which makes sense. I think it’s like that for a lot of people who understand color. I thought about it a lot when I was looking at your music hall scenes. You have the vignettes of the people playing the instruments. Somehow the choice of framing the musician with a red or a yellow shape creates this warmth and this energy as if I am in the room and I know how that would feel or smell, but it’s boiled down to a shape. It’s a mastery honestly, because I don’t really know how, but you can be transported. In terms of your more painterly pieces, there are some from your series where you were painting a bunch of things in one town or a few towns. There is a piece where you can clearly tell it is dusk, and there’s a light coming out from the window and the front door that you represent with just an orange triangle, and you can just feel it. I love that because, like I said earlier, even with your painterly pieces as well, you’re using these graphic techniques where you can see the shapes of each brush stroke. It’s really cool. For me, maybe it’s because I am in tune with music as well, but I could really feel that I was in the scene from subject matter that is really reduced down.

JF: That’s cool. I love the way you shared that. Music plays an integral part in what I’m doing. I’m all over the place with musical tastes. It can be downbeat chill, upbeat chill. It can be Patsy Cline. I have an appreciation, probably like you do, for all kinds of music. Often times, I’ll have music playing while I’m painting. Most of the time I paint late at night when it’s quiet outside and the phone is not ringing. Music definitely plays a big part for me in my work. 

WBB: What does power mean to you? When do you feel the most powerful? 

JF: Power is humility. I am the most powerful when I’m the most kind, the most compassionate, the most loving to others. It is the opposite of what most people would say is power. Truly power is harnessed energy. If you think of a wild stallion being harnessed and under control, well that wild stallion could kill you. A tamed wild stallion can use his energy and his power for something good at the right time. I’m at my strongest and most powerful when I am giving myself away and when I’m caring for my family. I give tons of art away every year to different charities and organizations. The giving piece, the generosity piece, is when I probably feel most powerful. In fact, if you were to talk to other people around you, they would say, “I enjoy Jon when he is listening to me, when he is asking about my day.” My faith is very foundational to what I do. Scripture is really important to me. There’s a verse in, I think it’s James, that says, “Be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger.” That is universal. It doesn’t have to be Christianity, it could be Islam, it could be anything. To listen to somebody and hear their story. Tell me about you. I want to know about you. If you say something I disagree with, let me just bite my tongue and continue to listen. I don’t need to be flippant or jump in and go, “Why do you believe that?” I’ve matured and grown in that for sure. Hopefully most people do. I love hearing from people who have totally different backgrounds from me. People who think differently, look differently. Atheists, people who don’t think or act like me at all—I want to hear their story. I want to know why you make the choices that you make, not to condemn you, but just because I want you to tell me about that choice. Tell me the reason you painted that or tell me about that piece of music—why did you do it that way? I love that. Nobody cares about my story, but all the sudden they might care about my story if I care about their story genuinely. I don’t mean trying to fake my way through it, I mean genuinely becoming interested. 

WBB: Or letting go of needing to be right or correct about something. Something I have constantly had to remind myself, especially over the last few years, is don’t get married to your ideas. If you get married to your ideas, you become ideological, and that can become something that’s scarier than anything else. When people give worship to their ideologies, that’s when things can become dangerous, and people can abuse power.

JF: No doubt. There’s this whole thing about toxic masculinity right now, which is a real thing, but it’s not toxic masculinity, it’s toxic humanity. It’s just people. Being a man is being respectful of every person and living creature on the planet—that’s a real man. A man is a servant leader. A real man serves his wife. A real man serves his kids, loves them unconditionally, passionately. Does a real man screw up? Absolutely. But let me tell you the difference. The difference in a real man who screws up is the fact that he will come back, whether it’s a minute, an hour, or a day later, and say, “Will you please forgive me for the way I just spoke to you? That was not nice. I was angry and will you please forgive me for that?” That element right there, whether it’s a man or a woman, is critical. It is an art. It is something we have lost as society—people will not come back and own their stuff. I screw up all the time.

WBB: It’s so important. You hear about that not happening a lot in work settings. I remember trying to be very intentional with Sarah when I worked for her. I worked for her for a long time and of course mistakes were made. I would just try to say, “I did this. I am going to correct it and do better next time.” Because it is a waste of time to get defensive. 

JF: Absolutely. Agreed.

WBB: What are some of the biggest struggles you have faced as an artist?

JF: Failure for me used to be a four-lettered word. It’s not anymore, but I can still struggle with failure. So if I am working on a painting or a sketch or something and I feel that I am just not getting it, I really struggle if I am not coming to a happy ending sooner. Now I realize that failure is part of the process. I can struggle with failure because there is still part of me that sees that as a negative. It’s not. I know it’s not. We tell our kids that failing means you’re doing. Failing means you’re actually working at something. You’re striving toward something. If you fail, I don’t care. I care that you are working toward something and have perseverance. It is the same for me. I am probably harder on myself when I fail to come up with a visual solution. I can really struggle and get angry with myself. I am my own worst critic. I can beat up on myself pretty hard. I still struggle with being a little easier on myself than what I can be. That can really put me in a funk if I am too hard on myself. 

WBB: I can understand that. When you have a failure in a piece visually it just stares at you and you just want to cut it up or set it on fire.

JF: Oh yeah for sure. Even over these past three months, I’ve been clearing out this storage area over here and literally have taken to canvasses with my box cutter. Some things I go back to and I’ll go Man, I really like that. That’s cool. Then there are some things, and my collectors just grimace, but I’ll just get a box cutter and do a big X across the canvas and it goes into the trash. It’s because I wasn’t happy with it.

WBB: That’s totally normal. 

JF: Exactly!

WBB: Cruz said he does the same thing. He has a lot of people working around him in his studio and he keeps a close hand on all the things he doesn’t want ever coming out into the world. You’ve got to have the control over what you want out in the world so I understand that. You don’t want people digging through your trash trying to find pieces so you’re like I’m just going to destroy these.

JF: Absolutely.

WBB: What advice would you give to your younger self and to younger artists?

JF: Don’t give up. For my younger self I would say, don’t give up, continue to pursue your passion even when you do fail, and dream really really big. The reason for myself as a youngster and for our kids, I said, “There are things you can’t even imagine yet. You can’t even comprehend what your future can and will look like if you won’t give up. Continue to pursue and persevere with what you’re doing. Things are going to happen that you can’t even imagine if you don’t give up.” That’s really the key whether it’s in a marriage, or with a kid and his talent, or a guy with his law firm, whatever. It is universal—keep going. Fall off that horse. Fall off, fall off, fall off, but keep going. Get back up. Are there going to be painful seasons? Yeah, there are going to be painful seasons of loss and grieving and heartache and tough life things that you’re going to have to deal with and so your focus may be a little different during those seasons, but don’t give up. If you love making music, you make music. If you love painting, paint. If you love photography, be a great photographer. And I say be the best photographer in the world. Be the best photographer you can possibly be. Strive to be the best. It’s really internal messaging saying, I want to be the best at what I do. I am a competitive person. Now, I love other artists and what they’re doing and encourage them—so it’s not competitive like, I am going to be better than you, but [rather] I want to be better than the self I was six months ago or a year ago. That’s the other thing—be a better version of yourself next year than what you were this year. In every way—character, talent, the way you give yourself away with your time and your resources etc. Continue to grow.

Also, read. There was a season of my life years ago where I hated reading. I encourage our kids to read. I buy them books. If there’s a book that I am reading that really speaks to me, I’ll buy a copy for everybody and give it to them. Now, I’ve got five or six books going on at the same time. I’m not a fiction reader. I’m reading a biography on Elon Musk. I’m reading a book called The Psychology of Money. I’m reading all sorts of different books from different disciplines because I grow that way and I get to see somebody else’s experiences that way. So, I would tell my younger self, who pooh poohed books, to start reading sooner and finding out about other artists and people that you’re interested in. 

But, don’t give up. Just keep going. I think too many people do give up. In art, music, photography, painting, it is extremely competitive. There are so many people out there who are artists. I also tell our kids, “Don’t worry about that. You do what you love to do. Don’t worry about anybody else. Definitely don’t compare yourself.” I think that’s kind of a killer for so many people, especially with Instagram. People go, “Oh gosh, I can’t do that. How’s he do that? I’ll never be that good.” I’m like, “No, no, no. They’re doing their own thing. That’s different. You do you.”

WBB: Yeah because there’s probably someone looking at them and their work thinking the same thing.

JF: Always. Absolutely. I appreciate what other people are doing. I’ll go, “That’s cool. I wish I would have thought of that.” But I don’t get bogged down and depressed and go, “I’ll never be that good.” Because I’m doing my own thing. Do your thing man.

WBB: Well that’s great advice. Thank you so much. This has been awesome. Let’s take some photos.

JF: Oh cool, yeah! You direct me.

Photography and Interview by Wendy Bowman Butler | @wendybowmanbutler
Connect with Jon Flaming on Instagram @jonflaming and see more of his work on jonflaming.com